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Sach Baat

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since Aug 07, 2002
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Recent posts by Sach Baat

Originally posted by Paul Villangca:

I guess I find this topic interesting because I also wanna get a job in the US (in the Third World, who doesn't?). But if I do, it will be through an MS, not through H-1B. Now if I could only get a scholarship...

I dont know what you mean by this.Getting a MS with a scholarship does not mean you can work in the US. You still need the H1-B to work in the US
19 years ago

Originally posted by Rufus Bugleweed:

I'll take this as admission that I cannot get an IT job in Bangalore.
I am on target that Mother India takes better care of her people than Uncle Sam?
We have not run out of auguments or steam for dealing with the likes of trolls or snipers.

Mr. Weed, you might probably sneer at this, but some companies are actually offering internships to American students.Here is a quote from the article
Usually, it's the Indian students who are coming to America, but a program offered by fast-growing Indian IT giant Infosys Technologies provides students at MIT, Wharton and other top universities in the U.S. and Europe an opportunity that is hard to match elsewhere.
Infosys' In Step program invites students to work anywhere between one and six months in India on meaningful projects that actually help the firm. Not on dummies created for greenhorns.
For the 2000-2001 school year, 800 students from top American and European colleges applied for just 24 vacancies, most of them in Bangalore. Recruiting for the next year has started, and according to Infosys the number of applications will increase substantially."
Read the article here,1367,47435,00.html
19 years ago

Originally posted by Luke Kolin:

The foreigners will learn the system no matter what. Competition, efficiency and productivity aren't rocket scince - it's just that India, China and other countries had protectionist folks who didn't believe in that. They wanted jobs for life and protection from foreign competition.

You are right on the dot with this one. In the 1970s IBM was kicked out of India,partly because the locals were afraid of competition. India was following the Socialist system and the worker was king. It was only in the 1990s that India opened up its markets, a little bit.India is still struggling to dismantle the bloated government run agencies and labour unions.
By the way dont mind the name calling by the other folks.When they run out of arguments, they usually resort to that.
19 years ago

Originally posted by Jason Menard:
Here is another article about the effect of immigration in Austin.
All of which is irrelevant. H-1B's are specifically (according to INS) non-immigrants. So yes, immigration is good, but H-1B's are not immigrants.

But the H1-B program allows the holders to immigrate. In fact the easiest way to immigrate is to use the H1-B program. I bet most of the skilled workers which the above program talks about would have used the H1-B visa to work in the US.
Here is another article which essentially supports the H1-B program.,10738,2805130,00.html
19 years ago

Originally posted by Jon Ellison:
Interesting Thread... Here is some more interesting reading for discussion...
Warning: A very long and involved article that hits on the H1-B subject... "Debunking the Myth of a Desperate Software Labor Shortage, Testimony to the U.S. House Judiciary Committee Subcommittee on Immigration." (updated September 2, 2002)

This is the only article which has been quoted again and again by the anti-H1( anti-immigrant?) camp.
What this article does is take a few cases, blow them out of proportion and then generalize it to the entire H1-B program.
Here is another article about the effect of immigration in Austin
Here is a quote from the article
William Frey, a demographer with the Milken Institute and a professor at the University of Michigan, has written extensively about how cities with robust immigration are in ascendance while those that cannot attract immigrants are in decline.
"They (immigrants) revitalize the regions they move to and enrich them culturally with their tastes in music, food and entertainment," Frey wrote recently in American Demographics magazine. "The regions that do not attract (immigrants) have often experienced a prolonged economic decline, or they lack the natural or cultural amenities that many migrants seek."
Among these foreign-born arrivals are immigrant entrepreneurs and highly skilled workers.
The Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development, an international economic development cooperative of 30 countries, including the United States, credited highly skilled immigrants for the ability of the United States to sustain growth in the software industry over the past decade.
19 years ago

Actually you are mistaken. An H1B can be told to leave as soon as the need for them as ended.

Nope, cant be done. A H1-b cannot be fired just because he is on H1.Once he is hired he can stay as long as the company sponsors him.

In any case, the same Congress that made the law to let H1B's in can make a new law to send them all home.

But of course they wont do that.Why will they change something which obviously benefits the country, just to please some unproductive workers.
[ September 02, 2002: Message edited by: Sach Baat ]
19 years ago

Originally posted by Jason Menard:

I'm sure this is how many supporters of the porgram try to rationalize this illegal behavior. But the fact remains, it is illegal. The law does not allow the employers the choice if there are Americans (or legal residents) available who can do the job. Any HR person who can look at you and with a straight face say that the H-1B candidate was hired because he was the only one available posessing "the theoretical and practical knowledge" is lying and commiting a crime by hiring said person. And anybody who actually believes this line probably has a guilty conscience, or doesn't want to admit (or doesn't care) that they are also being used in this game. Of course these HR people are also saving some $$ on the books for their employer and they know they won't be prosecuted, so why should they care?

This is not illegal behaviour. This is the intent of the H1B and that is the way it works.
The anti-immigrant lobby uses the tactic that H1bs are paid less.I can speak from personal experience that I always demanded and got above market salaries.
Of course, the H1Bs do get shafted a bit since they contibute towards social security and pay taxes, which they cannot avail of once they leave the country.
But I can say that the H1B program has been good for the US economy.
19 years ago

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
The only legal way to hire an H1B is if no American is available who can do the job. This does not mean that you can hire an H1B if he is a better candidate. H1B's can not compete with Americans for jobs. If an American is available and he can do the job, it does not matter if the H1B can do the job better. It is illegal to hire the H1B in that case.

Well the candidates in this case cannot do the job properly, even though they have skills in Java and C++.In this case there is no competition for the H1b.
By the way, can you show me anything from the INS site to support your argument.
19 years ago
Then given your example, this is illegal. Please learn about the purpose of the H-1B program before floating such ideas as "reasonable".
This is not illegal. In the given time frame the company could not find a candidate other than the H1B to write complex specifications.
From the INS website
"A specialty occupation requires theoretical and practical application of a body of specialized knowledge along with at least a bachelor�s degree or its equivalent.
Obviously the other candidates had listed skills in Java and C++, but they did not have the required theoretical and practical knowledge to apply it to a specialized task.
[ August 31, 2002: Message edited by: Sach Baat ]
19 years ago
No, the company hires him because he is much cheaper than the US citizens.
No not really. The company hires him because he is the best candidate.If I was the hiring company this is what I would do.
19 years ago

Originally posted by Richard Brokways:

Although Alex will not participate in this discussion, I wonder what his "skills" are. Do you think we could find an American citizen with "reasonably" equal skills to replace him? Given the economy and the number of US citizens who are unemployed, I think we could find one.

You are missing one important point here. Though you can find a citizen with equal skills (in terms of years) this might not be good enough for the employer.
Let me explain this further. Say Sun needs somebody to write the JAX-RPC specification.It puts out an ad asking for people with experience in C++ and Java. Now everybody applies for it and the company finds a good candidate.Unfortunately he is on a H1b visa. The company still hires him because he is the best candidate.
In this case, even though there are other American ctizens with equal experience in terms of years - they might not have the expertise to write the specification. To help keep the company competitive it has to hire the H1-b.
Iam not saying all cases are like this. There might be abuse in some cases. But right now I dont think people with easy to find skills are coming in.
19 years ago
"Bottom line, I see no evidence that refusing to hire an H1-B is illegal"
I agree, refusing to hire a H1b is not illegal.I was talking about ads which say - only US citizens.
Mark I was talking about permanent residents. Again H1Bs who have cleared the labour process( final stage of GC) are legally authorized to work for any employer, though they are still on H1b's.
I had recently read an interview with a government employee, where he had urged people to report such cases.
I will post the interview when I find it.
19 years ago

Originally posted by John Fontana:
I suspect that, ironically, employers who do this actually have no intention to hire a US citizen.
Just a hunch.

This is not true.Some recruiters have asked me about my citizenship status and immediately ended the call once I told them ,Iam not a citizen. H1bs have nothing to do with this.
Just do a search on Dice or Monster. You will find a lot of jobs which say - only american citizens need apply.Also some sites like promote this.
This is clearly illegal and I urge all responsible people to report such advertsements.
19 years ago
Please dont support web sites and job advertisements which ask for US citizenship status(unless it is a federal or state job which requires citizenship)
Please report job advertisements which say - US citizens only need apply to
Office of Special Counsel for Immigration-Related Unfair Employment Practices
P.O. Box 27728
Washington, DC 20038-7728
For more information, call the OSC Employer Hotline at 800-255-8155 (toll free); TDD: 800-362-2735. For questions about Title VII, please contact the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission at 800-669-4000 (toll free) or 202-275-7518 (TDD) or visit their website.

From the US Law website
Establish a policy of hiring only individuals who are authorized to work. A "U.S. citizens only" policy in hiring is illegal. An employer may require U.S. citizenship for a particular job only if it is required by federal, state, or local law, or by government contract"
19 years ago
"Electricity is unreliable.
Pollution is terrible.
Water is unreliable.
Maybe your should not entertain me. May be you should go home and clean up your country.
Scratch the surface and the mask goes way.Xenophobia is hard to conceal my friend.
Maybe you should go back to the country from where your forefathers came from.
[ August 30, 2002: Message edited by: Sach Baat ]
19 years ago