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Joe Pluta

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since Jun 23, 2003
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Recent posts by Joe Pluta

Well, given the length of some of our threads together, I guess that means we've been very, very, VERY bad!
Joe
15 years ago
And if you're really, really bad, you have to carry on a 47-post thread with me.
Joe
15 years ago
"Never" is a strong word, Gregg. I've posted, though not terribly often, in all of the Java in General forums, the IBM/Websphere forum and I think the servlets and JSP forums as well. I am also a semi-regular in the Author's Corral and an occasional poster in Programming Diversions. So while the percentage of my posts in MD is high, it's not 100%, and that's not unheard of here at the Ranch. There are other posters and even staff members who I daresay spend a good amount of time in MD.
I got involved in MD heavily first with the Good vs. Evil posts back last year. After some heated arguments, I took a breather. That lasted a while, until we had the outsourcing and visa discussions. While a bit off the wall, those culminated in the rather special casteism and slavery thread which I though was one of the best we've had in MD in my time here.
After that, though, my primary pull to MD was the fact that, with the number of people who post here, I didn't want people to get the idea that all Americans were die-hard anti-Bush fanatics who opposed the war in Iraq. With the decidedly leftist leaning of some of the more vocal posters in MD, I decided to add my voice to the more conservative faction. And though I did get a little het up on occasion , I eventually slowed down, seeing that there were folks here who could hold up the more conservative side of things just fine. I continued to mellow. However, by this time I had already made enemies among the staff, and I think you can see it in the fairly regular antagonism my posts received from a regular group of posters.
The culmination of this behavior was the "killing babies" debacle, where my comment that I would push a button to save my just-born son regardless of how many people you said it would kill became something of a rallying cry for the "Joe is evil" crowd. As the argument grew to include a few other Ranchers, I said a few decidedly uncivil things, until I finally backed off completely.
Over the last several weeks, I've hardly commented in MD. I made some recommendations for drinks (the Brave Bull being my favorite) and at one point I questioned whether Agent Orange had anything to do with a discussion of current events. I think it was that last comment that was the precursor to this last event.
Really, look at my posts over the last several weeks. Hardly any. Most of them completely benign, except for those responding to Michael Ernest. I still have a tendency to not let people put words in my mouth or misrepresent my position, even though I should know better by now. Really, read my posts. There are two or three people who goad me and who I am ashamed to say I still respond in kind. Yeah, it's a personal problem .
So that's it in a nutshell, Gregg. I got sucked into MD because I thought it was an interesting place to debate some really deep issues. Later, I found a couple of causes I wanted to voice an opinion on: outsourcing and Iraq. Once my baby was born, I began to really try to extricate myself, but there are a few people who get a kick out of slamming me, and my own character defects see me in shouting matches. That never looks good. As my grampa always said, never argue in public with a fool, bystanders can't tell the difference.
Anyway, I'm done in MD by Royal Fiat, and I intend, time permitting, to do a little more posting in some of the other forums. I think I really did manage to say my piece here, for whatever good may come of it, and all in all I'm pretty proud of myself. I wasn't always the nicest guy on the block (and that I'm not proud of), but I certainly held my own against some pretty tough and often nasty behavior. Say what you will about me, you always knew where I stood on issues, and I never backed down.
Joe
15 years ago
BTW Joe, I've just read your other thread. What about trying to solve the issue *privately*? With Paul for sure, but maybe with Michael and/or Max as well?
Privately has done no good. As far as I can tell, there is an inner circle and the rules are different for them. That's fine. I've neve been much for cliques anyway. I just dislike the implication that I am generally uncivil. Whenever I'm less than civil, it's in response to one of the staff. I don't mind being run out of town, but I do not believe that it's because I'm uncivil to the guests. It's because I won't take grief from the inner circle.
Not only that, it's good to clear the air. The more you keep behind closed doors, the more you're likely to foster elitism and self-serving rules and habits. Of course, some people don't like seeing their dirty laundry aired, and I can understand that. But it seems to me, based on what has happened here, that the conversations that occur in private here don't always address the real underlying problems.
In any event, I hardly posted in the last several weeks anyway, and when I did I got jumped, so there's no real reason for me to continue, either here or in MD. It's JUST A BULLETIN BOARD, fer goshsakes. I have other things to deal with. If I want to be productive, I can simply avoid MD and post in Java-related areas. I have to quit trying to tilt against windmills, accept the situation and move on.
This will be my last post on the subject. From now on, if I do participate, it will be with the full understanding that I am to act entirely within the rules of JavaRanch as indicated to me by any moderator, in private or public. I will refrain from posting in MD, and in any other forum (including this one) I will refrain from posting anything negative about any member of the staff or any other rancher, or anything that happens here at the Ranch.
The rules have been made clear: follow the edicts passed down, do not question, and if someone else breaks the rules, just deal with it. If I can't handle that, then it's my problem.
Joe
[ April 25, 2004: Message edited by: Joe Pluta ]
15 years ago
Your posts are often accusatory and full of mis-information. Just the kind of ick I'm trying to get rid of.
In my previous post, I didn't specifically refer to you, Paul Wheaton. I simply meant the moderators of this forum. My posts were deleted, the topic was closed. There is no misinformation there.
Joe
[ April 25, 2004: Message edited by: Joe Pluta ]
15 years ago
I respond and you delete my responses and close the thread.
Wow.
Joe
15 years ago
I've been told to tone down my posts in MD. I said I won't unless Michael Ernest tones down his, pointing out the fact that I only respond negatively in response to negative posts, most of which are coming from him.
That didn't go over well.
I'm going out of town for a day and a half. When I come back, we'll see where this all stands. If I'm no longer here, you'll all understand why.
It's been fun.
Joe
15 years ago
Ah, Duvel's! I remember the first time I sat in an Aarschott pub belting down Duvel's with the locals. I drank 'em like I was drinking Miller Lite. After about my sixth or seventh beer, they were laughing at me. I couldn't figure out why until I tried to get off the stool and my knees buckled under me. Quite a kick...
Joe
15 years ago
RH: Non-alcoholic : cold ginger beer
Is ginger beer what we would call ginger ale in the states? I've always wondered, especially since it was Dr. Who's favorite.
Personally, I like all different things, but lately I've been making a juice out of grapes, strawberries and mangos that the family likes. I mix that half and half with some sort of diet lemon-lime beverage (like Sprite) and a lot of ice.
Back in the day, I liked Long Island iced teas (equal parts rum, vodka, tequila, gin and triple sec - sweet and sour to taste and a splash of Coke for color). When I took the commuter train from Chicago I also liked something called, I kid you not, a "brave bull". Tequila and kahlua. The first one was rough, but after that they were like chocolate milk. Except chocolate milk didn't usually make me get on the wrong train and get off at a stop 60 miles from my house.
Joe
15 years ago
Oh, but I do think you started this war, Joe. You and Jason both.
Oh gosh, I didn't think you were going to actually try to worm your way out of this, but since you are, I'll review your statement once.
Imagine the Germans opening up concentration camps for Turks and then protesting indignantly when people drew parallels to the Jewish Holocaust: "Oh, are you going to bring that up again?"
In that analogy, you mentioned "the Germans", which without any further qualification meant all Germans (not those who voted for any specific administration). Simple extension means that by "you", you meant "the Americans". It's clear that's what you meant. And if it's not, then you really need to take some writing classes.
Anyway, I'm not going to spend any more time rebutting hypocrisy. Back to ignoring you, Alan.
Joe
15 years ago
It sounds to me like by "weird" you mean people who talk about stuff you don't think should be talked about.
How in the world did you come up with this? This is quite the bizarre leap. I never once said anything about what "should" and "shouldn't" be talked about, never hinted nor implied. You made that up completely out of your own subconscious, dude, and I have to say, it's looking to be a scary place.

And while I'm sure you'll tell me I am wrong on that point, I am satisfied in reviewing your posts here that I didn't just pull meaning out of thin air. It doesn't mean I'm right, either. But I don't feel I am utterly without foundation on this point. The rest was just a question to you; thank you for answering it.
Oh. My. God. This statement simply defies rational discussion. You know for a fact that I said nothing like what you're implying, you know I'm going to say that, and yet you still try to pre-emptively say that you're right. I have never read posts that scream out "I must be right!" more than yours. This really is some sort of bizarre alpha male thing. Wow.

It just boggles the imagination how these two statements can be put right next to each other. How is characterizing anyone in those terms consistent with not trying to cause trouble?
Your ability to complain when someone else follows your behavioral guidelines is stunning. Explain to me why your using the word "whining" over and over again is not causing trouble, and my using the word "Napoleonic" once is.

So on one hand I'm the one getting threads shut down, and at the same time I'm getting away with murder. That sounds to me like a pair of accusations that are mutually exclusive.
Nope. It simply means that you've been given a way lon gleash here, but the more you get away with, the more crap you pull, until ultimately someone has to shut you down. You need boundaries, man.

I can only infer you don't like it when I challenge certain views.

That's so funny.
Once again, your inferences aern't even in the same galaxy, dude. What I don't like about your posts is the supercilious, condescending air of them. Your posts don't "challenge" anything, at least not without using terms like "whining" and otherwise trying to belittle people.
I think I've been very clear that I don't get upset with what you say, but with how you say it. You deliberately choose the demeaning word when a neutral one will do. Your posts are the quintessence of argument by intimidation.

Anyway, if this is your idea of being conciliatory, then you might consider a little more practice.

Joe
15 years ago
(chuckling)
Y'all don't really want to know...
1556 posts in 325 days, or 4.8 posts per day.
But, like Jason, my posting has been much less prodigious, especially in the last couple of months.
Joe
15 years ago
I normally ignore your mutterings, Alan, but this one brought up an interesting point.
Alan: If you were really concerned about preventing rehashed discussions of America's failures in Vietnam, then you shouldn't have given the rest of the world such an obvious excuse to dredge them up again.
The "you" in "you shouldn't have" either means me personally or America. Sicne you can't possibly think I started the war in Iraq, it must mean America. And since you refer to "America" as you, then that means you don't consider yourself a part of America.
Just wanted to make sure that's clear. It clears up a couple of final issues in my mind.
Joe
15 years ago
Ok, just so I'm clear here: Joe, are you suggesting that you are the arbiter of what is meaningful and useful in a topic like this one?
Why yes, as far as I'm concerned! It's entirely up to me to determine what I think is useful. For example, what you find meaningful is usually pretty useless to me.

I find it a little bizarre that you insert yourself in a conversation like and seem to try and direct its discussion to whether you approve of it.
I'm not trying to direct anything! All I asked was a simple question - what does Agent Orange have to do with Iraq? The fact that you take offense to my question really says a lot more about you than me. This is some sort of alpha male thing with you, not me. I just drop in to see how the weird half lives. I have baby smiles to occupy most of my day .

It's not such a strange thing, I suppose: I get people in class from time to time who forget there are other students in the room and sometimes try to preclude discussion on points that don't interest them.
No, Mike, that's you. You're the one constantly trying to "take charge" of the conversation, such as landing on Jason with all fours. I really don't need to pee on anyone's bushes. Y'all want to continue to talk about Agent Orange, that's fine. I just dropped in my two cents.

But I've not heard anyone speak to the motivation so plainly as you have.
And yet, you go and get it wrong! All I said was I didn't think the statement was relevant. I'm not trying to stop you from talking.

It really sounds to me like you're trying to say this topic is probably better of shutting down because you don't find meaning it.
Since I never said anything like that, then I can only guess it sounds like that to you after being filtered through your own Napoleonic character defects, dude. Again, I'm not trying to cause trouble. If you'll notice, I'm not the one getting threads shut down. In fact, if anything the discussions here in MD ave gotten MORE rancorous since I stopped posting so much. That's not direct cause and effect, but you certainly can't insinuate that I'm the cause of the intemperance around here.

That part is pretty strange.
What's strange is that the moderators let you do what you do. You must be soemthing special behind closed doors, because here in the open your comments really don't bring much to the table. They're neither particularly insightful, nor even correct in many cases. They're just mean-spirited.

Joe
15 years ago
According to the system, Jim Yingst was, back ni the days when he was a lowly ranch hand:
http://www.javaranch.com
Joe
15 years ago